[Article] Eleven Surprising Things about the Japanese Language
Discussion: [Article] Eleven Surprising Things about the Japanese Language
From the forum: Sam's Essays
This thread was started by: Glowing Face Man.
Discussion start time: 2009-12-22 13:19:41.
From the forum: Sam's Essays
This thread was started by: Glowing Face Man.
Discussion start time: 2009-12-22 13:19:41.
From: Glowing Face Man.
Subj: [Article] Eleven Surprising Things about the Japanese Language
Date: 2009-12-22 13:19:41.
Subj: [Article] Eleven Surprising Things about the Japanese Language
Date: 2009-12-22 13:19:41.
Use this thread to discuss the Eleven Surprising Things about the Japanese Language article from Xamuel.com :)
Hello again. For anyone interested, I'd like to add some comments and suggested corrections to the article, from a 25+-year learner of Japanese and resident of Tokyo. (Needless to say, please correct me in return where I'm the one that's wrong!)
1. Raccoons are Bears
"Bear" is indeed a component of the word for "raccoon", though I wouldn't claim that that equates to "Japanese people consider raccoons to be small bears".
It may be that people long ago held that view. It may be that raccoons (especially with that name "araiguma") continue to remind people of bears, which is understandable. And, of course, if you expand the definition of "kuma" (bear) widely enough, then a raccoon does become a bear!
But people are aware of the distinction between names for things and the reality of things. If you ask people in Japan "Is an araiguma actually a bear?", I have no evidence that most or even many people would say "yes". Out of curiosity, do you?
2. Small Lizards are Bugs
"Japanese people consider small lizards to be bugs." HUH? Where in the world did you get this???
3. Ninjas and Geisha
Rendaku vocalizations are "completely unpredictable"? Never heard that claim before. I'd say they're very predictable (with a few surprises here and there, of course).
5. Affectionate Nicknames
The word "darling" was first heard widely in Japan in the cartoon Urusei Yatsura? I suppose that could be true; I'd be interested in the source for that claim if you know it.
"Even knowing the meaning, nobody outside the cartoon actually uses the word." I wouldn't say that. I've certainly heard people use it amongst themselves, though generally in a joking sense.
6. Alcoholic Veal
Can't say I've ever heard of "veal" as "ビール" instead of the usual "子牛"; have you? It's certainly possible, though I'd guess very uncommon. (And a self-respecting restaurant would use "ヴィール", anyway. : )
7．Negative Transfer
"The Land of the Rising Sun borrowed ham as “hamu”, but it actually means “lunchmeat” "
Is that your experience? When I hear "ham" here in Japan, it pretty much always means "ham". I wouldn't doubt that there are non-pork lunchmeat products that use "ham" in the name somehow (like "turkey ham" in the US), but I think you'll generally find "ham" = "ham".
"We borrowed “kamikaze” and understand it as a suicide airplane attack, but in Japanese it literally means “divine wind” and refers to the hurricanes which thwarted the Mongol invasions."
Er, the suicide pilots of Japan took that historical wind reference as their name, yes, but the name "kamikaze" to mean a suicide plane attack is indeed Japanese, not a US creation. It's even in Japanese dictionaries as such.
9. Different Types of Rice
"I’d say that Japanese are the Eskimos of rice, except that the old “100 words for snow” thing is a total urban myth. Anyway, to a Japanese person, rice growing in a field, rice sitting in a bag, and rice cooked in a bowl, are three completely distinct things (albeit closely related in a natural way, but still distinct)."
For any learners out there, a rice plant is "ine", dry rice grain is "kome", and cooked rice is "gohan". Nothing bizarre about those distinctions as human language goes, but it is interesting to know. (And you're right about the Eskimo thing being myth.)
10. Legs and Feet
"The same word, “ashi”, means both “foot” and “leg” in Japanese. "
True, though take note that they're written with different characters. So the conceptual distinction does exist.
(And if I may: For any learners out there, a heap of articles of my own about Japanese: http://www.homejapan.com/content_topic/language/japanese )
Best –
1. Raccoons are Bears
"Bear" is indeed a component of the word for "raccoon", though I wouldn't claim that that equates to "Japanese people consider raccoons to be small bears".
It may be that people long ago held that view. It may be that raccoons (especially with that name "araiguma") continue to remind people of bears, which is understandable. And, of course, if you expand the definition of "kuma" (bear) widely enough, then a raccoon does become a bear!
But people are aware of the distinction between names for things and the reality of things. If you ask people in Japan "Is an araiguma actually a bear?", I have no evidence that most or even many people would say "yes". Out of curiosity, do you?
2. Small Lizards are Bugs
"Japanese people consider small lizards to be bugs." HUH? Where in the world did you get this???
3. Ninjas and Geisha
Rendaku vocalizations are "completely unpredictable"? Never heard that claim before. I'd say they're very predictable (with a few surprises here and there, of course).
5. Affectionate Nicknames
The word "darling" was first heard widely in Japan in the cartoon Urusei Yatsura? I suppose that could be true; I'd be interested in the source for that claim if you know it.
"Even knowing the meaning, nobody outside the cartoon actually uses the word." I wouldn't say that. I've certainly heard people use it amongst themselves, though generally in a joking sense.
6. Alcoholic Veal
Can't say I've ever heard of "veal" as "ビール" instead of the usual "子牛"; have you? It's certainly possible, though I'd guess very uncommon. (And a self-respecting restaurant would use "ヴィール", anyway. : )
7．Negative Transfer
"The Land of the Rising Sun borrowed ham as “hamu”, but it actually means “lunchmeat” "
Is that your experience? When I hear "ham" here in Japan, it pretty much always means "ham". I wouldn't doubt that there are non-pork lunchmeat products that use "ham" in the name somehow (like "turkey ham" in the US), but I think you'll generally find "ham" = "ham".
"We borrowed “kamikaze” and understand it as a suicide airplane attack, but in Japanese it literally means “divine wind” and refers to the hurricanes which thwarted the Mongol invasions."
Er, the suicide pilots of Japan took that historical wind reference as their name, yes, but the name "kamikaze" to mean a suicide plane attack is indeed Japanese, not a US creation. It's even in Japanese dictionaries as such.
9. Different Types of Rice
"I’d say that Japanese are the Eskimos of rice, except that the old “100 words for snow” thing is a total urban myth. Anyway, to a Japanese person, rice growing in a field, rice sitting in a bag, and rice cooked in a bowl, are three completely distinct things (albeit closely related in a natural way, but still distinct)."
For any learners out there, a rice plant is "ine", dry rice grain is "kome", and cooked rice is "gohan". Nothing bizarre about those distinctions as human language goes, but it is interesting to know. (And you're right about the Eskimo thing being myth.)
10. Legs and Feet
"The same word, “ashi”, means both “foot” and “leg” in Japanese. "
True, though take note that they're written with different characters. So the conceptual distinction does exist.
(And if I may: For any learners out there, a heap of articles of my own about Japanese: http://www.homejapan.com/content_topic/language/japanese )
Best –
Thanks for the observations and link. Most the evidence for these observations comes from my girlfriend, so you could say I'm using n=1 for data.
I asked her for clarification on the lizards-are-bugs item. She says: "Small lizards aren't technically considered bugs, but when someone says for example `mushi ga kirai' (`I hate bugs'), it includes things like butterflies, insects, but also small lizards and even small frogs. But it never includes cats or dogs or any kind of mammals..."
You're right about rendaku, it's not a problem in practice, but if you could formulate some precise rules to accurately predict it, you could easily get an honorary PhD for the discovery. I meant "unpredictable" in that sense.
I asked her for clarification on the lizards-are-bugs item. She says: "Small lizards aren't technically considered bugs, but when someone says for example `mushi ga kirai' (`I hate bugs'), it includes things like butterflies, insects, but also small lizards and even small frogs. But it never includes cats or dogs or any kind of mammals..."
You're right about rendaku, it's not a problem in practice, but if you could formulate some precise rules to accurately predict it, you could easily get an honorary PhD for the discovery. I meant "unpredictable" in that sense.